Omg never thought school could get this bad

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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Suicidal Lady on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:48 pm

Lunaticked wrote:
ShadowsMyst wrote:
Suicidal Lady wrote:Oooh that sounds awful. I mean, the whole point of being in the "real world" as I see it is that you work 9-5 and THAT'S IT.


That's sarcasm... right? Cuz I had OODLES more time as a student than I ever have in my working life. Only a tiny TINY fraction of the people I know have ever worked a "9-5" job. And they were all government/civil-service/public sector jobs. Most of the people I know these days are working 9-12 hour days, mandatory overtime to fill in for staffing shortages, because employers are too cheap to hire proper staff or the quality people just aren't there. And some work REALLY shit shifts. like 8pm - 3 am kind of shitty. And then they get like... wed/thursday off. No weekends. No holidays. No paid sick leave. It seems that you either drown in work, or you don't get any at all these days. I know when I worked in retail, the concept of 9-5 was alien to me. No one worked 9-5 cept maybe extremely high up general managers.


Makes me glad I forsook my entire education and business background and went for a blue collar trades job. 11 hour workdays (usually less), 7 days on, 7 days off, crazy good benefits and retirement stuff. The sort of money I would have had to bust my ass for 15 years and been lucky to even think about making before. I do not miss sitting in an office, I do not miss fluorescent lighting for a whole day, I do not miss sitting on my ass.

I do miss access to a microwave on a consistent basis though. I love me a warm sammich with melted cheese and hot meat...

I wish the world would have better prepared us young folk for the realities of the world out there after education. Really felt..deceived and outright lied to about how a good education was the surefire path to a good job with good pay.


I know what you mean. My dad is a college dropout and when he puts in overtime he can make 120k a year from the management position he has in Seattle City Light electrical company. I don't think being a professional astronomer will ever net me that much, though a typical salary for an astronomer is 70-90k + whatever you get from grants for research that you can use on yourself for food and travel.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Lunaticked on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:34 am

Suicidal Lady wrote:I know what you mean. My dad is a college dropout and when he puts in overtime he can make 120k a year from the management position he has in Seattle City Light electrical company. I don't think being a professional astronomer will ever net me that much, though a typical salary for an astronomer is 70-90k + whatever you get from grants for research that you can use on yourself for food and travel.


And you get to tell people that you're a freakin' astronomer. How many people can say that? Sides, 70-90k is still a good amount of money for today's standards. Just make sure to kiss your professors' asses so they can give you connections and whatnot.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Daggertooth on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:42 pm

ShadowsMyst wrote:I teach Photoshop classes. Mostly to Photographers as a continuing studies course.

I work full time as a Graphic Designer.

Thats cool. I dabble in Photoshop occasionally, I just know the basics though. Recently I've been tasked with making an HTML image map for a global rangeland project. I thought it would be possible in Photoshop, I mean it is advanced software and all that, but it seems coordinate maps of complex polygons are beyond it. Still, I have had fun messing with various photographs in photoshop. Even had a deviant art that I used to update regularly with pictures.

lunaticked wrote:I wish the world would have better prepared us young folk for the realities of the world out there after education. Really felt..deceived and outright lied to about how a good education was the surefire path to a good job with good pay.

Well that's just based on average salaries. A high school dropout working as a day laborer in the oil fields will make a hell of a lot more money than I ever would with a college degree. Same with those who are good at various trade jobs like Auto mechanics. It seems, however, that the majority of jobs for those without higher degrees tend to be low paying menial jobs.

It doesn't help that college degrees are a dime a dozen and that nowadays jobs that used to not require much education now require at least a B.S.

Suicide Lady,
I assume that a Professional Astronomer requires higher education. Can you pull that off with a B.S.? or will you have to go higher than that? $60,000-70,000 is an awesome salary, at least for me. Kind of depends on where you plan to live. I'm hoping for something higher than $40,000 with my masters degree.


I got a B.S. in Biology with a Minor in Chemistry. I thought that made me well rounded, but it just made me too broad to take seriously. I was able to get plenty of fun seasonal jobs, but I never made enough money to get real comfortable. Did make breaking even into an art, and everything I own can fit into my hyundai..with enough room for the random hitchhiker. I am expecting a Master's degree to not only open a ton more doors for me, but to give me access to jobs with higher wages.

I had considered a Ph.D, but for what I want doors will actually close. So it was recommended against.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Lunaticked on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:20 pm

Daggertooth wrote:Well that's just based on average salaries. A high school dropout working as a day laborer in the oil fields will make a hell of a lot more money than I ever would with a college degree. Same with those who are good at various trade jobs like Auto mechanics. It seems, however, that the majority of jobs for those without higher degrees tend to be low paying menial jobs.

It doesn't help that college degrees are a dime a dozen and that nowadays jobs that used to not require much education now require at least a B.S.


If I knew in highschool the things I know now about the job market, I would have skipped all my post secondary studies entirely, have almost an extra decade of retirement funds saved up. Probably have a nice house or bit of land by now. Hard work is just more valuable than academic ability these days.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Suicidal Lady on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:57 pm

Daggertooth wrote:Suicide Lady,
I assume that a Professional Astronomer requires higher education. Can you pull that off with a B.S.? or will you have to go higher than that? $60,000-70,000 is an awesome salary, at least for me. Kind of depends on where you plan to live. I'm hoping for something higher than $40,000 with my masters degree.


With an astronomy B.S.? You can't teach high school and work in a planetarium, that's it. You either get your PhD or you find another thing to do. A master's in astro won't get you any better then a B.S. I am in this for the long haul. 7+ years of graduate school, baby!

Lunaticked: Well, it depends really on what you want to do. If you want to do astronomy and get paid for it, you are trapped in the higher education system for life. But if I just wanted to make good money I could get hired where my dad works and, if I got promoted to journeyman quickly enough, in 3 years I could be making what it will after 7 years in gradschool, at least if I can even FIND a job after grad school. It just all depends, do you want to do something you love or do you want the money? Some things, like a sociology degree, aren't really worth the time if you aren't going into research for sure. It's the business, social sciences, humanities, and fine arts degrees that are what's really common. The hard science degrees usually mean more and are required for particular jobs that use that knowledge.

Also, for astronomy positions, they are usually for life, meaning they don't open up often but you are secure once you get them. It's very sad, but 12 astronomers at my universty have died this year alone due to old age, and the first thing a fellow astronomy graduate says to me is "Well, at least we will have jobs open for us in the future." It was funny, but not in the good kind of way.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Lunaticked on Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 pm

Suicidal Lady wrote:It just all depends, do you want to do something you love or do you want the money? Some things, like a sociology degree, aren't really worth the time if you aren't going into research for sure. It's the business, social sciences, humanities, and fine arts degrees that are what's really common. The hard science degrees usually mean more and are required for particular jobs that use that knowledge.

Also, for astronomy positions, they are usually for life, meaning they don't open up often but you are secure once you get them. It's very sad, but 12 astronomers at my universty have died this year alone due to old age, and the first thing a fellow astronomy graduate says to me is "Well, at least we will have jobs open for us in the future." It was funny, but not in the good kind of way.


Sadly doing things I love never worked out. Things I love cost money, or won't hire me because I lack 'experience'. So I've made my great compromise. Enough money to afford to do some of what I love (in a year or two) and lots of time to enjoy it.

It rocks that you're doing something that needs people. One of my best friends is aiming to get his physics Phd and work on that. He actually got to play around a bit with the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory. Space is awesome and we need people with a passion for it and a drive to stick with it.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Suicidal Lady on Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:27 pm

Lunaticked wrote:
Suicidal Lady wrote:It just all depends, do you want to do something you love or do you want the money? Some things, like a sociology degree, aren't really worth the time if you aren't going into research for sure. It's the business, social sciences, humanities, and fine arts degrees that are what's really common. The hard science degrees usually mean more and are required for particular jobs that use that knowledge.

Also, for astronomy positions, they are usually for life, meaning they don't open up often but you are secure once you get them. It's very sad, but 12 astronomers at my universty have died this year alone due to old age, and the first thing a fellow astronomy graduate says to me is "Well, at least we will have jobs open for us in the future." It was funny, but not in the good kind of way.


Sadly doing things I love never worked out. Things I love cost money, or won't hire me because I lack 'experience'. So I've made my great compromise. Enough money to afford to do some of what I love (in a year or two) and lots of time to enjoy it.

It rocks that you're doing something that needs people. One of my best friends is aiming to get his physics Phd and work on that. He actually got to play around a bit with the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory. Space is awesome and we need people with a passion for it and a drive to stick with it.


One unfortunate thing about astronomy is that it is the "rich man's science." There are no real direct benefits to society that are seen right off the bat like in other sciences, so when the economy goes south, so does the funding for astronomy :/.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Lunaticked on Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:01 am

Suicidal Lady wrote:
Lunaticked wrote:
One unfortunate thing about astronomy is that it is the "rich man's science." There are no real direct benefits to society that are seen right off the bat like in other sciences, so when the economy goes south, so does the funding for astronomy :/.


Crap. We need eccentric astronomy loving billionaires...instead of space flight loving billionaires. If it all goes south, I live in the mountains so I'm sure you could bring a telescope and a tent and camp out in my back yard. Won't even have to pay rent. I'll make money by charging two bucks a gander at the space lady what lives in a tent.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Suicidal Lady on Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:56 pm

Lunaticked wrote:
Suicidal Lady wrote:
Lunaticked wrote:
One unfortunate thing about astronomy is that it is the "rich man's science." There are no real direct benefits to society that are seen right off the bat like in other sciences, so when the economy goes south, so does the funding for astronomy :/.


Crap. We need eccentric astronomy loving billionaires...instead of space flight loving billionaires. If it all goes south, I live in the mountains so I'm sure you could bring a telescope and a tent and camp out in my back yard. Won't even have to pay rent. I'll make money by charging two bucks a gander at the space lady what lives in a tent.


XD Sounds promising! With the way light pollution is going out of control these days, the mountains are the best places to see the stars!

Actually, one of the things we are told is if we want funding, go to Texas XD. A lot of astronomy funding relies heavily on rich oil barons who give their money to astronomers because they might get something named after them.
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Re: Omg never thought school could get this bad

Postby Daggertooth on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:07 pm

Lunaticked wrote: Hard work is just more valuable than academic ability these days.

That only depends on the industry you are in. Astronomy seems to be one that requires the education. There are several others out there that demand education over experience, unfortunately for me I'm not in one of those. I'm in Rangeland Management, where experience can take you a lot farther than education. Though the right background and education can give you a significant jump start in the field (same as any trade specific education or training for that trade job). I don't have that background, nor do I have the range undergraduate classes to supplement my resume. I have specialized a bit in fires, but thats a field that demands experience over education. I've torched over 6000 acres, but its just not enough for the industry.

In short. I'm a Rangeland Masters specializing in fire who doesn't qualify for Rangeland or Fire jobs. :oops:


However, I qualify for any ecology job and I am in a field I love. I don't expect to ever make much money, starting pay with a masters degree is somewhere around $40,000, but then I didn't go into this field for the money. I went into this field to enjoy the outdoors and to ensure that future generations can enjoy it.


Sucks that the economy is failing. Looks like its going to be hard to find a real job for a good long while.
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